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[ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions) (Real Studio games Mailinglist archive)

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[ANN] Preview of RBD 2.4   -   Marc Zeedar
  [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Frank Condello
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Seth Willits
    Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Lars Jensen
     Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Frank Condello
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Joseph J. Strout
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Seth Willits
    Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Lars Jensen
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Frank Condello
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Frank Condello
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Asher Dunn
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Asher Dunn
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Frank Condello
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Asher Dunn
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Frank Condello
   Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Thomas Cunningham
    Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)   -   Frank Condello

[ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 10.05.05 05:56 (Tue, 10 May 2005 00:56:47 -0400)
From: Frank Condello
The Quesa Wrappers for REALbasic 5.5+ are a set of free and open source
classes that extend and compliment RB3D by talking directly to the
underlying 3D library. Release 0.6b is a maintenance release including
API improvements, optimizations, and several bug fixes. NOTE: Due to
API changes, older projects may require minor tweaking to work with
this latest release.

For downloads and full documentation/release notes visit here:
<http://developer.chaoticbox.com/>

Unfortunately this will likely be the last Quesa Wrappers release. I
have several more high-level classes being held back by bugs in the
Quesa library, and it is unclear if these bugs will be fixed in the
foreseeable future. After much consideration the decision was made to
tie up loose ends with this bug-fix release and move on to a more
robust 3D solution.

Thanks,
Frank.
------------------------------------
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<http://developer.chaoticbox.com/>
<http://www.chaoticbox.com/>
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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 10.05.05 18:54 (Tue, 10 May 2005 10:54:15 -0700)
From: Seth Willits
On May 9, 2005, at 9:56 PM, Frank Condello wrote:

> Unfortunately this will likely be the last Quesa Wrappers release.
> I have several more high-level classes being held back by bugs in
> the Quesa library, and it is unclear if these bugs will be fixed in
> the foreseeable future. After much consideration the decision was
> made to tie up loose ends with this bug-fix release and move on to
> a more robust 3D solution.

Dun dun duuuunnn!!!!

Quesa is nice and all, but I think Asher has done a superb job in
demonstrating that xplat OpenGL can be done easily. With a bit of
work from community members, coming up with a complete class set
that's either close or mimics the built-in ones (plus more features
of course) would quite nice.

Alas... I have other things to do.


Seth Willits
----------------------------------------------------------
Freak Software - http://www.freaksw.com/
ResExcellence - http://www.resexcellence.com/realbasic/
----------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 10.05.05 19:18 (Tue, 10 May 2005 14:18:08 -0400)
From: Lars Jensen
> After much consideration the decision was made to tie up loose ends with this
> bug-fix release and move on to a more robust 3D solution.

Such as?

lj
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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 10.05.05 19:57 (Tue, 10 May 2005 14:57:33 -0400)
From: Frank Condello
On 10-May-05, at 2:18 PM, Lars Jensen wrote:

>> After much consideration the decision was made to tie up loose ends
>> with this
>> bug-fix release and move on to a more robust 3D solution.
>
> Such as?

A custom renderer that's mostly RB code. I'm really not far enough
along to give any more specifics.

Frank.
------------------------------------
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<http://www.chaoticbox.com/>
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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 10.05.05 19:09 (Tue, 10 May 2005 13:09:10 -0500)
From: Joseph J. Strout
At 10:54 AM -0700 5/10/05, Seth Willits wrote:

>Quesa is nice and all, but I think Asher has done a superb job in
>demonstrating that xplat OpenGL can be done easily.

He's demonstrated that the easy parts can be done easily. Don't
mistake a demo for a complete product -- for example, we had a demo
of REALbasic 2005 a year and a half ago. :)

Best,
- Joe

Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 10.05.05 19:23 (Tue, 10 May 2005 11:23:57 -0700)
From: Seth Willits
On May 10, 2005, at 11:09 AM, Joseph J. Strout wrote:

> He's demonstrated that the easy parts can be done easily. Don't
> mistake a demo for a complete product -- for example, we had a demo
> of REALbasic 2005 a year and a half ago. :)

For sure :)

But think about it... Newton + OpenGL + REALbasic = one drool-worthy
easy-to-use API. Hmm... Newton wrappers... not a bad idea.


Seth Willits
----------------------------------------------------------
Freak Software - http://www.freaksw.com/
ResExcellence - http://www.resexcellence.com/realbasic/
----------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 11.05.05 05:21 (Wed, 11 May 2005 00:21:44 -0400)
From: Lars Jensen
> Newton + OpenGL + REALbasic = one drool-worthy easy-to-use API.

You mean this?

http://www.newtondynamics.com/

The downloads look cool, but the one I tried (Stunt Playground) just quits
on my Win box...(which has admittedly lame hardware). :(

Is this thing open source or what? They don't explain it too well.

lj
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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 10.05.05 19:49 (Tue, 10 May 2005 14:49:27 -0400)
From: Frank Condello
On 10-May-05, at 2:09 PM, Joseph J. Strout wrote:

> At 10:54 AM -0700 5/10/05, Seth Willits wrote:
>
>> Quesa is nice and all, but I think Asher has done a superb job in
>> demonstrating that xplat OpenGL can be done easily.
>
> He's demonstrated that the easy parts can be done easily.

From what I've seen so far I'd say that's an accurate assessment. The
monolithic "OpenGL Declares" approach everyone seems to be taking is
not the way to go about this IMHO, but until I got something better to
demonstrate I'll keep my mouth shut ;)

Frank.
------------------------------------
Open Source RB Goodies and Shareware
<http://developer.chaoticbox.com/>
<http://www.chaoticbox.com/>
------------------------------------

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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 10.05.05 19:58 (Tue, 10 May 2005 14:58:55 -0400)
From: Frank Condello
On 10-May-05, at 2:23 PM, Seth Willits wrote:

> Newton wrappers... not a bad idea.

Someone's been peeking at my todo list... ;)

Frank.
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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 11.05.05 04:35 (Tue, 10 May 2005 23:35:11 -0400)
From: Asher Dunn

On May 10, 2005, at 1:54 PM, Seth Willits wrote:

> Quesa is nice and all, but I think Asher has done a superb job in
> demonstrating that xplat OpenGL can be done easily. With a bit of work
> from community members, coming up with a complete class set that's
> either close or mimics the built-in ones (plus more features of
> course) would quite nice.

If anyone wants to try out my classes, I can send them off list. At
this time however, I don't feel like releasing the code, so the classes
would be encrypted, but I would include HTML documentation and some
examples.

Asher Dunn
--------------------------------------------------------
President and Head Developer of Fireye Software
<http://www.fireyesoftware.com/>
AIM and Yahoo: fireye7517

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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 11.05.05 04:36 (Tue, 10 May 2005 23:36:45 -0400)
From: Asher Dunn

On May 10, 2005, at 2:49 PM, Frank Condello wrote:

>>> Quesa is nice and all, but I think Asher has done a superb job in
>>> demonstrating that xplat OpenGL can be done easily.
>>
>> He's demonstrated that the easy parts can be done easily.
>
> From what I've seen so far I'd say that's an accurate assessment. The
> monolithic "OpenGL Declares" approach everyone seems to be taking is
> not the way to go about this IMHO, but until I got something better to
> demonstrate I'll keep my mouth shut ;)

I have a working drop-in replacement for Rb3D. Does that count as "the
easy parts"? :-)

Asher Dunn
--------------------------------------------------------
President and Head Developer of Fireye Software
<http://www.fireyesoftware.com/>
AIM and Yahoo: fireye7517

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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 11.05.05 05:41 (Wed, 11 May 2005 00:41:04 -0400)
From: Frank Condello
On 10-May-05, at 11:36 PM, Asher Dunn wrote:

> On May 10, 2005, at 2:49 PM, Frank Condello wrote:
>
>>>> Quesa is nice and all, but I think Asher has done a superb job in
>>>> demonstrating that xplat OpenGL can be done easily.
>>>
>>> He's demonstrated that the easy parts can be done easily.
>>
>> From what I've seen so far I'd say that's an accurate assessment. The
>> monolithic "OpenGL Declares" approach everyone seems to be taking is
>> not the way to go about this IMHO, but until I got something better
>> to demonstrate I'll keep my mouth shut ;)
>
> I have a working drop-in replacement for Rb3D. Does that count as "the
> easy parts"? :-)

Well, to be fair, we've only seen pre-compiled demos and buckets of
OpenGL declares, so it's hard to know exactly what yer up to. However,
there's a lot going on behind the scenes in Rb3D (i.e. inside Quesa)
that you may not have considered. Specular highlights and transparent
hull sorting are some things I don't recall seeing in your demos (but
again, all I've seen are demos, so for all I know you've got those
working already).

I'll shut back up now ;)

Frank.
------------------------------------
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<http://www.chaoticbox.com/>
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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 11.05.05 05:54 (Wed, 11 May 2005 00:54:32 -0400)
From: Asher Dunn

On May 11, 2005, at 12:41 AM, Frank Condello wrote:

>> I have a working drop-in replacement for Rb3D. Does that count as
>> "the easy parts"? :-)
>
> Well, to be fair, we've only seen pre-compiled demos and buckets of
> OpenGL declares, so it's hard to know exactly what yer up to.

True; I have not released my framework yet.

> However, there's a lot going on behind the scenes in Rb3D (i.e. inside
> Quesa) that you may not have considered.

True.

> Specular highlights

I use OpenGL's lighting, which allows for specular highlights (only
calculated per vertex unfortunately).

> and transparent hull sorting

You mean sorting transparent polygons by depth? I have not implemented
that yet.

> are some things I don't recall seeing in your demos

The only "demo" that uses either of these is Eclipse (transparency),
but it doesn't use transparency very much, and it is not depth sorted.
I render translucent polygons after opaque ones, but I do not sort them
by depth (yet!)

> (but again, all I've seen are demos, so for all I know you've got
> those working already).

Ha I wish.

> I'll shut back up now ;)

I could use to do that too ;-)

Asher Dunn
--------------------------------------------------------
President and Head Developer of Fireye Software
<http://www.fireyesoftware.com/>
AIM and Yahoo: fireye7517

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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 11.05.05 06:45 (Wed, 11 May 2005 01:45:25 -0400)
From: Frank Condello
On 11-May-05, at 12:54 AM, Asher Dunn wrote:

> On May 11, 2005, at 12:41 AM, Frank Condello wrote:
>
>> Specular highlights
>
> I use OpenGL's lighting, which allows for specular highlights (only
> calculated per vertex unfortunately).

Actually that's all Quesa does as well (using
GL_SEPARATE_SPECULAR_COLOR if available). I was actually thinking of
something else when I mentioned highlights, but now I can't remember
what that was... it may have been the fact that Quesa tries to do
two-pass highlights on transparent surfaces, but that's kinda broken
ATM - so don't do that like Quesa ;)

Frank.
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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 11.05.05 04:39 (Tue, 10 May 2005 17:39:34 -1000)
From: Thomas Cunningham
<snip>

> After much consideration the decision was made to
> tie up loose ends with this bug-fix release and move on to a more
> robust 3D solution.

Would you care to elaborate on this solution? Just curious Frank.

Thomas C.

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Re: [ANN] Quesa Wrappers v0.6b (RB3D Extensions)
Date: 11.05.05 05:22 (Wed, 11 May 2005 00:22:13 -0400)
From: Frank Condello
On 10-May-05, at 11:39 PM, Thomas Cunningham wrote:

> <snip>
>> After much consideration the decision was made to
>> tie up loose ends with this bug-fix release and move on to a more
>> robust 3D solution.
>
> Would you care to elaborate on this solution? Just curious Frank.

Well like I replied to Lars, it's: "A custom renderer that's mostly RB
code."

I'm still in the early stages...

Frank.
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