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[ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features (Real Studio network user group Mailinglist archive)

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  [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   REAL News
    [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   REAL News
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Stefan Mettenbrink
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Joseph J. Strout
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Peter De Berdt
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Stefan Mettenbrink
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliabilityand Adds New Features   -   Stefan Mettenbrink
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Peter De Berdt
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliabilityand Adds New Features   -   Joseph J. Strout
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Stefan Mettenbrink
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; ImprovesReliabilityand Adds New Features   -   Stefan Mettenbrink
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Steve Roy
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Dietmar Harms
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Stefan Pantke
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Steve Roy
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Norman Palardy
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Dietmar Harms
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Peter De Berdt
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   George M. Ellenburg
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Will Leshner
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Peter De Berdt
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Adam Ernst
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Joseph J. Strout
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Charles Yeomans
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Greg
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Bill Cavalieri
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Charles Yeomans
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Joseph J. Strout
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Charles Yeomans
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features   -   Stefan Mettenbrink
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Stefan Mettenbrink
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Adam Ernst
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Adam Ernst
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Stefan Mettenbrink
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Corey Redlien
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Stefan Mettenbrink
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Norman Palardy
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Will Leshner
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Norman Palardy
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Stefan Mettenbrink
     Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Will Leshner
   Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features   -   Thomas Cunningham

[ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 13:27 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 07:27:30 -0500)
From: REAL News
REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New
Features

AUSTIN, Texas, USA (August 2, 2005) - REAL Software announced today
it is
shipping REALbasic 2005 Release 2. Arriving just 49 days after REALbasic
2005 Release 1, this release clearly demonstrates the company's
ability to
deliver value to customers via the REALbasic Rapid Release Model.

REALbasic 2005 Release 2 delivers reliability improvements in the code
editor, window editor, menu editor, compiler and debugger.

REALbasic 2005 Release 2 introduces a new type of property, the Computed
Property, which automatically provides Get and Set methods. Release 2
delivers several other new features, including:

- The Window class now provides a Focus property that returns the
currently
active window control.

- The Array class now supports sorting multiple arrays simultaneously
using
the same sort order.

- The ComboBox class now exposes new properties that provide parity
with the
EditField.

- User-defined class properties may now have default values.

The complete list of improvements and new features in REALbasic 2005
Release
2 can be found in the release notes in the product download,
<http://www.realsoftware.com/download>.

REALbasic 2005 Release 2 is currently available for Windows and
Macintosh.
The REALbasic for Linux Public Beta has been also updated. REALbasic for
Linux is scheduled for release later this month.

Any REALbasic 2005 user with a current update plan can download
Release 2
and begin using it with no additional purchase.

About REALbasic
REALbasic is a full-featured software development environment suited to
creating all kinds of applications, from utilities to enterprise-class
applications. REALbasic is available now starting at $99.95 direct
from REAL
Software. REALbasic Professional Edition, required for cross-platform
deployment, starts at $399.95 and includes more advanced features.

About REAL Software
REAL Software provides REALbasic 2005, Cross-Platform That Really
Works, for
people who want to create and deliver cross-platform software for
Macintosh,
Windows and Linux. REALbasic is highly compatible with Visual Basic and
includes a utility to help migrate Visual Basic applications cross-
platform
to Macintosh and Linux. REAL Software was founded in 1996 and is
based in
Austin, Texas. For more information visit www.realsoftware.com or call
512.328.7325.

###

Copyright (c) 2005 REAL Software, Incorporated. REAL Software,
REALbasic and
the REAL Software cube logo are registered trademarks of REAL
Software, Inc.
All other names mentioned are trademarks or registered trademarks of
their
respective holders in the United States and other countries.

Contact:
Gwen Palmer
Director of Marketing
REAL Software, Inc.
<email address removed>
(512) 328-7325 x712
(512) 775-1346 (mobile)
http://www.realsoftware.com

[ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 13:27 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 07:27:30 -0500)
From: REAL News
REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New
Features

AUSTIN, Texas, USA (August 2, 2005) - REAL Software announced today
it is
shipping REALbasic 2005 Release 2. Arriving just 49 days after REALbasic
2005 Release 1, this release clearly demonstrates the company's
ability to
deliver value to customers via the REALbasic Rapid Release Model.

REALbasic 2005 Release 2 delivers reliability improvements in the code
editor, window editor, menu editor, compiler and debugger.

REALbasic 2005 Release 2 introduces a new type of property, the Computed
Property, which automatically provides Get and Set methods. Release 2
delivers several other new features, including:

- The Window class now provides a Focus property that returns the
currently
active window control.

- The Array class now supports sorting multiple arrays simultaneously
using
the same sort order.

- The ComboBox class now exposes new properties that provide parity
with the
EditField.

- User-defined class properties may now have default values.

The complete list of improvements and new features in REALbasic 2005
Release
2 can be found in the release notes in the product download,
<http://www.realsoftware.com/download>.

REALbasic 2005 Release 2 is currently available for Windows and
Macintosh.
The REALbasic for Linux Public Beta has been also updated. REALbasic for
Linux is scheduled for release later this month.

Any REALbasic 2005 user with a current update plan can download
Release 2
and begin using it with no additional purchase.

About REALbasic
REALbasic is a full-featured software development environment suited to
creating all kinds of applications, from utilities to enterprise-class
applications. REALbasic is available now starting at $99.95 direct
from REAL
Software. REALbasic Professional Edition, required for cross-platform
deployment, starts at $399.95 and includes more advanced features.

About REAL Software
REAL Software provides REALbasic 2005, Cross-Platform That Really
Works, for
people who want to create and deliver cross-platform software for
Macintosh,
Windows and Linux. REALbasic is highly compatible with Visual Basic and
includes a utility to help migrate Visual Basic applications cross-
platform
to Macintosh and Linux. REAL Software was founded in 1996 and is
based in
Austin, Texas. For more information visit www.realsoftware.com or call
512.328.7325.

###

Copyright (c) 2005 REAL Software, Incorporated. REAL Software,
REALbasic and
the REAL Software cube logo are registered trademarks of REAL
Software, Inc.
All other names mentioned are trademarks or registered trademarks of
their
respective holders in the United States and other countries.

Contact:
Gwen Palmer
Director of Marketing
REAL Software, Inc.
<email address removed>
(512) 328-7325 x712
(512) 775-1346 (mobile)
http://www.realsoftware.com

Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 16:30 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 17:30:40 +0200)
From: Stefan Mettenbrink
REAL News wrote:

> REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships

Even the same IDE :-(
My App grow (RB5.5.5 -> RB05R2) from 11/15MB (Mac/Win) to 16/22MB :-(
The run-time grow from 40sec. to 95sec. :-(

I can't work in this time with RB05 :-(

BTW, I have a method with 1138 lines. Thats to much for RB05 :-(

MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 16:43 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 09:43:11 -0600)
From: Joseph J. Strout
At 5:30 PM +0200 8/2/05, Stefan Mettenbrink wrote:

>My App grow (RB5.5.5 -> RB05R2) from 11/15MB (Mac/Win) to 16/22MB :-(
>The run-time grow from 40sec. to 95sec. :-(
>
>I can't work in this time with RB05 :-(
>
>BTW, I have a method with 1138 lines. Thats to much for RB05 :-(

This feedback isn't specific enough to be helpful. Perhaps you
should consider joining the betas program, and give us detailed
feedback so that we can address whatever problems you're facing.

Best,
- Joe

Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 17:45 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 18:45:01 +0200)
From: Peter De Berdt

On 02 Aug 2005, at 17:30, Stefan Mettenbrink wrote:

> REAL News wrote:
>
>> REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships
>>
> Even the same IDE :-(
> My App grow (RB5.5.5 -> RB05R2) from 11/15MB (Mac/Win) to 16/22MB :-(
> The run-time grow from 40sec. to 95sec. :-(
>
> I can't work in this time with RB05 :-(
>
> BTW, I have a method with 1138 lines. Thats to much for RB05 :-(

A method with 1138 lines sounds like bad programming to me, could be
wrong of course. God help if there's a runtime bug in there to find.


Best regards

Peter De Berdt

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 19:23 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 20:23:45 +0200)
From: Stefan Mettenbrink
Peter De Berdt wrote:

>> BTW, I have a method with 1138 lines. Thats to much for RB05 :-(
>
> A method with 1138 lines sounds like bad programming to me, could be
> wrong of course. God help if there's a runtime bug in there to find.

My be. But it run fine in RB 5.5.5.
(it's many stuff)
Ok, I can put it in some more methodes. But why?

MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliabilityand Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 19:45 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 20:45:45 +0200)
From: Stefan Mettenbrink
Joseph J. Strout wrote:

> This feedback isn't specific enough to be helpful. Perhaps you should
> consider joining the betas program, and give us detailed feedback so
> that we can address whatever problems you're facing.

I have send my source to REALSoftware (I can' find the mail, sorry).
I've got no response.
(it is a file named Familienbande)

Should I send the source to you?

MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 20:01 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:01:43 +0200)
From: Peter De Berdt

On 02 Aug 2005, at 20:23, Stefan Mettenbrink wrote:

> Peter De Berdt wrote:
>
>>> BTW, I have a method with 1138 lines. Thats to much for RB05 :-(
>>>
>> A method with 1138 lines sounds like bad programming to me, could be
>> wrong of course. God help if there's a runtime bug in there to find.
>>
> My be. But it run fine in RB 5.5.5.
> (it's many stuff)
> Ok, I can put it in some more methodes. But why?

1. Speed of REALbasic Editor
2. Speed of finding the right code
3. Speed of being able to understand your code without reading
through it

Generally speaking, I would say because of speed :-)

Best regards

Peter De Berdt

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliabilityand Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 20:28 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 13:28:35 -0600)
From: Joseph J. Strout
At 8:45 PM +0200 8/2/05, Stefan Mettenbrink wrote:

>>This feedback isn't specific enough to be helpful. Perhaps you should
>>consider joining the betas program, and give us detailed feedback so
>>that we can address whatever problems you're facing.
>
>I have send my source to REALSoftware (I can' find the mail, sorry).
>I've got no response.

If you sent it by email, then that's the problem. It needs to be
filed via the feedback system.

>Should I send the source to you?

Nope. I'll most likely lose it in the mountain of email I get every
day. That's what the feedback system is for.

Best,
- Joe

Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 21:04 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 22:04:03 +0200)
From: Stefan Mettenbrink
Peter De Berdt wrote:

>> My be. But it run fine in RB 5.5.5.
>> (it's many stuff)
>> Ok, I can put it in some more methodes. But why?
>
> 1. Speed of REALbasic Editor
> 2. Speed of finding the right code
> 3. Speed of being able to understand your code without reading
> through it
>
> Generally speaking, I would say because of speed :-)

If RB05 is fast as RB5.5.5 I have speed enough.

MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; ImprovesReliabilityand Adds New Features
Date: 02.08.05 21:07 (Tue, 2 Aug 2005 22:07:03 +0200)
From: Stefan Mettenbrink
Joseph J. Strout wrote:

> If you sent it by email, then that's the problem. It needs to be
> filed via the feedback system.

Someone has ask me ...

> That's what the feedback system is for.

I will look for it next time.

MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 04.08.05 04:10 (Wed, 03 Aug 2005 23:10:20 -0400)
From: Steve Roy
On 2-Aug-05, at 11:30 AM, Stefan Mettenbrink wrote:

> BTW, I have a method with 1138 lines. Thats to much for RB05 :-(

Goodness, I think that's a Good Thing that RB won't take it!

Steve

Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 04.08.05 12:07 (Thu, 4 Aug 2005 13:07:33 +0200)
From: Dietmar Harms
>> BTW, I have a method with 1138 lines. Thats to much for RB05 :-(
>
> Goodness, I think that's a Good Thing that RB won't take it!

I think this should be the developer's decision.

Dietmar

(I am working with a database where names of objects are limited to 31
characters. Many times I wanted to create names with 32 or 35
characters, and had to invent abbreviations I didn't like. So who
should set the limit?)

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 04.08.05 15:20 (Thu, 4 Aug 2005 16:20:42 +0200)
From: Stefan Pantke

Am 04.08.2005 um 13:07 schrieb Dietmar Harms:

>>> BTW, I have a method with 1138 lines. Thats to much for RB05 :-(
>>>
>> Goodness, I think that's a Good Thing that RB won't take it!
>>
> I think this should be the developer's decision.
>
> Dietmar
>
> (I am working with a database where names of objects are limited to
> 31 characters. Many times I wanted to create names with 32 or 35
> characters, and had to invent abbreviations I didn't like. So who
> should set the limit?)

In neither case should the system define a limit. There might
be good reasons for longs names and long methods.

One example is RB code generated by a program. In this case
the length of a methods doesn't matter - speaking of style -.

Kinds

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 04.08.05 21:11 (Thu, 04 Aug 2005 16:11:08 -0400)
From: Steve Roy
On 4-Aug-05, at 7:07 AM, Dietmar Harms wrote:

> I think this should be the developer's decision.

Sure, but I don't know any programmer who would be happy to be given
a 1138 lines long method to debug.

Steve

Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 04.08.05 21:18 (Thu, 4 Aug 2005 14:18:21 -0600)
From: Norman Palardy

On Aug 04, 2005, at 2:11 PM, Steve Roy wrote:

> On 4-Aug-05, at 7:07 AM, Dietmar Harms wrote:
>
>> I think this should be the developer's decision.
>
> Sure, but I don't know any programmer who would be happy to be given a
> 1138 lines long method to debug.
>
Happy no ... possible sure ... why not ?

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 07:44 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 08:44:20 +0200)
From: Dietmar Harms
>> I think this should be the developer's decision.
>
> Sure, but I don't know any programmer who would be happy to be given a
> 1138 lines long method to debug.

It's always the same discussion: Every programmer knows that long
methods are difficult to debug - OK. But aren't we old enough to decide
ourselves how long we think our methods should be? Must there be a
limitation from the programming environment we use to tell us (like
little children!) where we may or may not go? ;-)

I for example wrote a medical import routine which is about 2300 lines
of code (in 4th Dimension). Due to editor limitations I had to split
this routine into 4 methods :-( It was difficult to find the right cut
points to switch to the next method, because lots of local arrays were
declared and used all over the import routine. So there are few
exceptions where it really makes sense to have long methods. If a
programmer is a bad designer, he will find ways to make his code
unreadable, whether You limit the number of code lines, length of
variable names or whatever.

Best, Dietmar

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 07:57 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 08:57:25 +0200)
From: Peter De Berdt

On 05 Aug 2005, at 08:44, Dietmar Harms wrote:

>>> I think this should be the developer's decision.
>>>
>> Sure, but I don't know any programmer who would be happy to be
>> given a 1138 lines long method to debug.
>>
> It's always the same discussion: Every programmer knows that long
> methods are difficult to debug - OK. But aren't we old enough to
> decide ourselves how long we think our methods should be? Must
> there be a limitation from the programming environment we use to
> tell us (like little children!) where we may or may not go? ;-)
>
> I for example wrote a medical import routine which is about 2300
> lines of code (in 4th Dimension). Due to editor limitations I had
> to split this routine into 4 methods :-( It was difficult to find
> the right cut points to switch to the next method, because lots of
> local arrays were declared and used all over the import routine. So
> there are few exceptions where it really makes sense to have long
> methods. If a programmer is a bad designer, he will find ways to
> make his code unreadable, whether You limit the number of code
> lines, length of variable names or whatever.

Sure, but on the other hand a reading of http://www.drunkenblog.com/
drunkenblog-archives/000605.html might reveal REALsoftware isn't the
culprit. They're probably using NSTextView for their editfield, so
could well be the OS itself causing the slowdown and crashes.


Best regards

Peter De Berdt

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 13:44 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 08:44:51 -0400)
From: George M. Ellenburg

On Aug 5, 2005, at 2:57 AM, Peter De Berdt wrote:
> Sure, but on the other hand a reading of http://www.drunkenblog.com/
> drunkenblog-archives/000605.html might reveal REALsoftware isn't
> the culprit. They're probably using NSTextView for their editfield,
> so could well be the OS itself causing the slowdown and crashes.

They are definitely NOT using NSTextView. It's a home-grown
solution. If I thought there was a snowball's chance in hades that
RS would implement NSTextView I would pay for the implementation.

Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 14:57 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 06:57:09 -0700)
From: Will Leshner

On Aug 4, 2005, at 11:57 PM, Peter De Berdt wrote:

> They're probably using NSTextView for their editfield, so could
> well be the OS itself causing the slowdown and crashes.

If you mean the code editor itself, I'm pretty sure they are using a
Canvas.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 15:04 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 16:04:33 +0200)
From: Peter De Berdt

On 05 Aug 2005, at 15:57, Will Leshner wrote:

>
> On Aug 4, 2005, at 11:57 PM, Peter De Berdt wrote:
>
>> They're probably using NSTextView for their editfield, so could
>> well be the OS itself causing the slowdown and crashes.
>>
> If you mean the code editor itself, I'm pretty sure they are using
> a Canvas.

Yes, probably, now I come to think it over :-)



Best regards

Peter De Berdt

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 16:00 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 10:00:50 -0500)
From: Adam Ernst
On Aug 5, 2005, at 9:04 AM, Peter De Berdt wrote:

> On 05 Aug 2005, at 15:57, Will Leshner wrote:
>
>> On Aug 4, 2005, at 11:57 PM, Peter De Berdt wrote:
>>
>>> They're probably using NSTextView for their editfield, so could
>>> well be the OS itself causing the slowdown and crashes.
>>
>> If you mean the code editor itself, I'm pretty sure they are using
>> a Canvas.
>
> Yes, probably, now I come to think it over :-)

Pity, though. If it used the native text viewing classes it would be
much more stable and conform to system standards.

Adam
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 16:14 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 09:14:06 -0600)
From: Joseph J. Strout
At 10:00 AM -0500 8/5/05, Adam Ernst wrote:

>>>If you mean the code editor itself, I'm pretty sure they are using a Canvas.
>>
>>Yes, probably, now I come to think it over :-)
>
>Pity, though. If it used the native text viewing classes it would be
>much more stable and conform to system standards.

Yes, standards like no autocomplete, no automatic indentation, and no
block lines. :)

Best,
- Joe

Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 16:19 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 11:19:09 -0400)
From: Charles Yeomans

On Aug 5, 2005, at 11:00 AM, Adam Ernst wrote:

> On Aug 5, 2005, at 9:04 AM, Peter De Berdt wrote:
>
>> On 05 Aug 2005, at 15:57, Will Leshner wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 4, 2005, at 11:57 PM, Peter De Berdt wrote:
>>>
>>>> They're probably using NSTextView for their editfield, so could
>>>> well be the OS itself causing the slowdown and crashes.
>>>
>>> If you mean the code editor itself, I'm pretty sure they are using a
>>> Canvas.
>>
>> Yes, probably, now I come to think it over :-)
>
> Pity, though. If it used the native text viewing classes it would be
> much more stable and conform to system standards.

That's not so clear to me. RS would need to write its own code editor
in any case, which means they would be calling to ATSUI to draw text,
etc. As it is, they presumably use Graphics methods to draw text,
which I believe use, well, ATSUI.

--------------
Charles Yeomans

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 16:41 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 11:41:14 -0400)
From: Greg

On Aug 2, 2005, at 11:30 am, Stefan Mettenbrink wrote:

> REAL News wrote:
>
>> REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships
>>
> Even the same IDE :-(
> My App grow (RB5.5.5 -> RB05R2) from 11/15MB (Mac/Win) to 16/22MB :-(
> The run-time grow from 40sec. to 95sec. :-(
>
> I can't work in this time with RB05 :-(
>
> BTW, I have a method with 1138 lines. Thats to much for RB05 :-(
>

I'm curious, how many characters are in those 1138 lines?

Greg O'Lone, President
Stretched Out Software Inc
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 16:47 (Fri, 05 Aug 2005 10:47:40 -0500)
From: Bill Cavalieri
On Fri, 2005-08-05 at 10:00 -0500, Adam Ernst wrote:
>
> Pity, though. If it used the native text viewing classes it would be
> much more stable and conform to system standards.

I used to purposely use components in Delphi that did not make use of
the system Text type fields. Found that made things much more stable,
well at least in the Windows world...

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 16:49 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 11:49:15 -0400)
From: Charles Yeomans

On Aug 5, 2005, at 8:44 AM, George M. Ellenburg wrote:

>
> On Aug 5, 2005, at 2:57 AM, Peter De Berdt wrote:
>> Sure, but on the other hand a reading of
>> http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/000605.html might
>> reveal REALsoftware isn't the culprit. They're probably using
>> NSTextView for their editfield, so could well be the OS itself
>> causing the slowdown and crashes.
>
> They are definitely NOT using NSTextView. It's a home-grown solution.
> If I thought there was a snowball's chance in hades that RS would
> implement NSTextView I would pay for the implementation.

I'm not sure that it would be possible to do so, as the Apple
documentation says that embedding an NSView into a Carbon window is not
supported.

Now if you are willing to settle for MLTE, then that is certainly
possible to do; indeed, it can be done using declares and mostly tidily
wrapped up as a Canvas subclass. MLTE supports graphics embedding,
undo, and various layout and formatting options.

--------------
Charles Yeomans

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 16:54 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 09:54:58 -0600)
From: Joseph J. Strout
At 11:49 AM -0400 8/5/05, Charles Yeomans wrote:

>Now if you are willing to settle for MLTE, then that is certainly
>possible to do; indeed, it can be done using declares and mostly
>tidily wrapped up as a Canvas subclass. MLTE supports graphics
>embedding, undo, and various layout and formatting options.

...Though not all that we do, or at least, that was the case when we
wrote our EditField code a few years ago. For example, we support
paragraph-level alignment, which MLTE doesn't (or at least, didn't --
it's been a while since I looked at it, perhaps it's improved since
then).

Best,
- Joe

Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 17:08 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 12:08:29 -0400)
From: Charles Yeomans

On Aug 5, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Joseph J. Strout wrote:

> At 11:49 AM -0400 8/5/05, Charles Yeomans wrote:
>
>> Now if you are willing to settle for MLTE, then that is certainly
>> possible to do; indeed, it can be done using declares and mostly
>> tidily wrapped up as a Canvas subclass. MLTE supports graphics
>> embedding, undo, and various layout and formatting options.
>
> ...Though not all that we do, or at least, that was the case when we
> wrote our EditField code a few years ago. For example, we support
> paragraph-level alignment, which MLTE doesn't (or at least, didn't --
> it's been a while since I looked at it, perhaps it's improved since
> then).

Not in that regard. I think that the main MLTE features not in the Rb
EditField are embedded graphics and (bounded) undo.

--------------
Charles Yeomans

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability and Adds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 18:07 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 19:07:03 +0200)
From: Stefan Mettenbrink
Greg wrote:

>> Even the same IDE :-(
>> My App grow (RB5.5.5 -> RB05R2) from 11/15MB (Mac/Win) to 16/22MB :-(
>> The run-time grow from 40sec. to 95sec. :-(
>>
>> I can't work in this time with RB05 :-(
>>
>> BTW, I have a method with 1138 lines. Thats to much for RB05 :-(
>>
> I'm curious, how many characters are in those 1138 lines?

47511

But there are many other Metodes. Only two are so big.

MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 18:11 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 19:11:03 +0200)
From: Stefan Mettenbrink
Steve Roy wrote:

>> I think this should be the developer's decision.
>
> Sure, but I don't know any programmer who would be happy to be given
> a 1138 lines long method to debug.

OK.

Here is as part of the source:

for j=0 to 38
if suchoptionen(j)=true then
select case (j)
case 0
for i=ubound(feld) downto 0
for z=1 to CountFields(person(feld(i)).vornamen," ")
if
s=GetPhoneticCode(len(s),NthField(person(feld(i)).vornamen," ",l))
then
listBox2.addRow ""
for k=0 to listBox2.columncount-1

listBox2.cell(listbox2.lastindex,k)=listBox1.cell(Listboxzeile(i),k)
next'k
feld.remove i
Listboxzeile.remove i
exit
end
next' z
next'i
case 1
for i=ubound(feld) downto 0
for z=1 to CountFields(person(feld(i)).nachname," ")
if
s=GetPhoneticCode(len(s),NthField(person(feld(i)).nachname," ",l))
then
listBox2.addRow ""
for k=0 to ubound(Suchspalten)

listBox2.cell(listbox2.lastindex,k)=listBox1.cell(Listboxzeile(i),k)
next'k
feld.remove i
Listboxzeile.remove i
exit
end
next' z
next'i
case 2

... and so on.

Some cases are differnt and longer.
How can I do it better?

Perheaps I need some cases more next time.

MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 18:55 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 12:55:01 -0500)
From: Adam Ernst
On Aug 5, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Stefan Mettenbrink wrote:

> Some cases are differnt and longer.
> How can I do it better?

Add a routine to the class "person" that is called "GetNthField
(FieldIndex as Integer)". This would return "vornamen" if FieldIndex
is passed as 0, "nachname" if FieldIndex is passed as 1, etc. That
way you can abstract your code to ignore the particular field.

Any time you find yourself copying and pasting code, odds are you're
doing something wrong.

Adam
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 18:58 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 12:58:03 -0500)
From: Adam Ernst
On Aug 5, 2005, at 12:55 PM, Adam Ernst wrote:

> On Aug 5, 2005, at 12:11 PM, Stefan Mettenbrink wrote:
>
>> Some cases are differnt and longer.
>> How can I do it better?
>>
> Add a routine to the class "person" that is called "GetNthField
> (FieldIndex as Integer)". This would return "vornamen" if
> FieldIndex is passed as 0, "nachname" if FieldIndex is passed as 1,
> etc. That way you can abstract your code to ignore the particular
> field.

Of course I meant "return the contents of the variable vornamen", not
the literal string "vornamen".

Adam
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 05.08.05 19:49 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 20:49:47 +0200)
From: Stefan Mettenbrink
Adam Ernst wrote:

> Add a routine to the class "person" that is called "GetNthField
> (FieldIndex as Integer)". This would return "vornamen" if FieldIndex
> is passed as 0, "nachname" if FieldIndex is passed as 1, etc. That
> way you can abstract your code to ignore the particular field.

Yes, that could be a way. I will test it next time.

MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 06.08.05 01:59 (Fri, 05 Aug 2005 20:59:33 -0400)
From: Corey Redlien
I could be wrong, but I think this might help you out a bit...

Looking at your existing code (which, without knowing certain things
can be a bit confusing, and I may be wrong...), it looks like you
could easily cut down your code by doing a bit of "preprocessing"
before doing your loops. Figure out what variables change from case
to case, and what doesn't, assign a standard (tempString, kCount for
example) and then do the "fixed" items (where you fill in the
listboxes) with those variable elements. Hope this helps..

dim tempString as String
dim kCount as integer

for jto 38
if suchoptionen(j) then

select case (j)

case 0
tempString = person( feld(i)).vornamen )
kCount = listBox2.columnCount-1
Case 1
tempString = person(feld(i)).nachname )
kCount = UBound(Suchspalten)
Case 2
....
end Select

for i = UBound( feld ) DownTo 0
for zto CountFields( tempString, " " )
if s=getPhoneticCode( len(s), NthField( tempString, " ",
z ) ) then
listbox2.addrow ""
for kto kCount
listbox2.cell( listbox2.listcount-1, k ) =
listbox1.cell( Listboxzeile(i), k )
next
field.remove i
Listboxzeile.remove i
exit
end if
next
next

end if
next

- Corey

On Aug 5, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Stefan Mettenbrink wrote:

> Steve Roy wrote:
>
>>> I think this should be the developer's decision.
>>>
>> Sure, but I don't know any programmer who would be happy to be given
>> a 1138 lines long method to debug.
>>
> OK.
>
> Here is as part of the source:
>
> for jto 38
> if suchoptionen(j)=true then
> select case (j)
> case 0
> for i=ubound(feld) downto 0
> for zto CountFields(person(feld(i)).vornamen," ")
> if
> s=GetPhoneticCode(len(s),NthField(person(feld(i)).vornamen," ",l))
> then
> listBox2.addRow ""
> for kto listBox2.columncount-1
>
> listBox2.cell(listbox2.lastindex,k)=listBox1.cell(Listboxzeile(i),k)
> next'k
> feld.remove i
> Listboxzeile.remove i
> exit
> end
> next' z
> next'i
> case 1
> for i=ubound(feld) downto 0
> for zto CountFields(person(feld(i)).nachname," ")
> if
> s=GetPhoneticCode(len(s),NthField(person(feld(i)).nachname," ",l))
> then
> listBox2.addRow ""
> for kto ubound(Suchspalten)
>
> listBox2.cell(listbox2.lastindex,k)=listBox1.cell(Listboxzeile(i),k)
> next'k
> feld.remove i
> Listboxzeile.remove i
> exit
> end
> next' z
> next'i
> case 2
>
> ... and so on.
>
> Some cases are differnt and longer.
> How can I do it better?
>
> Perheaps I need some cases more next time.
>
> MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 06.08.05 05:27 (Sat, 6 Aug 2005 06:27:17 +0200)
From: Stefan Mettenbrink
Corey Redlien wrote:

> Looking at your existing code (which, without knowing certain things
> can be a bit confusing, and I may be wrong...), it looks like you
> could easily cut down your code by doing a bit of "preprocessing"
> before doing your loops. Figure out what variables change from case
> to case, and what doesn't, assign a standard (tempString, kCount for
> example) and then do the "fixed" items (where you fill in the
> listboxes) with those variable elements. Hope this helps..

Ok, I think, I need a little brain storm.

But, I can't understand, why RB05 must have a maximum line in methodes.

MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 06.08.05 05:48 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 22:48:57 -0600)
From: Norman Palardy

On Aug 05, 2005, at 10:27 PM, Stefan Mettenbrink wrote:

> Corey Redlien wrote:
>
>> Looking at your existing code (which, without knowing certain things
>> can be a bit confusing, and I may be wrong...), it looks like you
>> could easily cut down your code by doing a bit of "preprocessing"
>> before doing your loops. Figure out what variables change from case
>> to case, and what doesn't, assign a standard (tempString, kCount for
>> example) and then do the "fixed" items (where you fill in the
>> listboxes) with those variable elements. Hope this helps..
>
> Ok, I think, I need a little brain storm.
>
> But, I can't understand, why RB05 must have a maximum line in methodes.
>
Right .... the whole issue of whether a long method should be
refactored is totally different from RB barfing on a long method.

The tools should not force you to do this.

If I want to put 5000 lines in one method RB should be capable of
handling it ....

whether I should do it is a totally different question

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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 06.08.05 06:05 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 22:05:06 -0700)
From: Will Leshner

On Aug 5, 2005, at 9:48 PM, Norman Palardy wrote:

> Right .... the whole issue of whether a long method should be
> refactored is totally different from RB barfing on a long method.
>
> The tools should not force you to do this.
>
> If I want to put 5000 lines in one method RB should be capable of
> handling it ....
>
> whether I should do it is a totally different question

One reason you might end up with a method of 5000 lines is if you had
a tool auto-generating the code for you. The group of developers I
worked with was doing something like that with the CodeWarrior
compilers and the result was too big for the compiler, so we had to
do some tricks to make the compiler happy.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 06.08.05 06:28 (Fri, 5 Aug 2005 23:28:46 -0600)
From: Norman Palardy

On Aug 05, 2005, at 11:05 PM, Will Leshner wrote:

>
> On Aug 5, 2005, at 9:48 PM, Norman Palardy wrote:
>
>> Right .... the whole issue of whether a long method should be
>> refactored is totally different from RB barfing on a long method.
>>
>> The tools should not force you to do this.
>>
>> If I want to put 5000 lines in one method RB should be capable of
>> handling it ....
>>
>> whether I should do it is a totally different question
>
> One reason you might end up with a method of 5000 lines is if you had
> a tool auto-generating the code for you. The group of developers I
> worked with was doing something like that with the CodeWarrior
> compilers and the result was too big for the compiler, so we had to do
> some tricks to make the compiler happy.

Gawd ... you'd have to have had HUGE methods to make CW barf .... I've
seen a few and they were .... monstrous.

But 1100 or 1200 lines doesn't seem THAT big ... (at least not coming
from someone who used to write in languages where cut and paste was
"code reuse")


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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 06.08.05 08:15 (Sat, 6 Aug 2005 09:15:21 +0200)
From: Stefan Mettenbrink
Norman Palardy wrote:

> The tools should not force you to do this.
>
> If I want to put 5000 lines in one method RB should be capable of
> handling it ....

Right! That's what I mean.

MfG, Metti.
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 06.08.05 15:19 (Sat, 6 Aug 2005 07:19:05 -0700)
From: Will Leshner

On Aug 5, 2005, at 10:28 PM, Norman Palardy wrote:

> Gawd ... you'd have to have had HUGE methods to make CW barf ....
> I've seen a few and they were .... monstrous.
>

It was huge :)
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Re: [ANN] REALbasic 2005 Release 2 Ships; Improves Reliability andAdds New Features
Date: 06.08.05 05:19 (Fri, 05 Aug 2005 18:19:42 -1000)
From: Thomas Cunningham
> From: Stefan Mettenbrink <<email address removed>>

Regarding your large method, I might suggest you pick up a copy of

Refactoring: Improving the Design of Existing Code
by Martin Fowler

An unusual chapter, called "Bad Smells in Code," gives overall motivation
for the refactorings of such things as "long methods".

It's a good read IMO.

Thomas C.

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