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RB Company. (Real Studio network user group Mailinglist archive)

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Reports   -   ss2 cire
  RB Company.   -   Jorge Biquez
   Re: RB Company.   -   Sidney Barry
    Re: RB Company.   -   Norman Palardy
    Re: RB Company.   -   Jorge Biquez
    Re: RB Company.   -   Lundstrom Design
    Re: RB Company.   -   Brian
     Re: RB Company.   -   Tony Alfrey
    Re: RB Company.   -   Giovanni
    Re: RB Company.   -   Kim Kohen
     Re: RB Company.   -   Markus Winter
      Re: RB Company.   -   Jorge Biquez
       Re: RB Company.   -   Bart Silverstrim
      Re: RB Company.   -   Rubber Chicken Software Co.
       Icon   -   Jaap Cammeraat
      Re: RB Company.   -   Bart Silverstrim
    Re: RB Company.   -   Tim Jones

RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 04:47 (Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:47:18 -0500)
From: Jorge Biquez
Hello.

I am working on a project where has been kind of difficult to
convince client to accept some solution under Rb. ANyway, he asked
something that even when I found some information on the RB website
to tell the truth I have not much extra information to give. And all
this because the question is kind of tricky.

"Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the product?"

I know nobody could tell something about if RB company is healthy or
not not (financially) or if they plan to have an excellent error free
product so tehy can sell it. But I would like to hear your comments
about how would answer a question like that.

Thanks in advance

JB

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Re: RB Company.
Date: 17.08.09 16:37 (Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:37:51 -0700 (PDT))
From: Sidney Barry
> I am working on a project where has been kind of difficult to convince client to
> accept some solution under Rb. ANyway, he asked something that even when I found
> some information on the RB website to tell the truth I have not much extra
> information to give. And all this because the question is kind of tricky.

I hate being asked that. I hope you are charging them for your research time.

cheers!

Sid

---------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
Sidney Barry
Canberra Software
---------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------



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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 16:53 (Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:53:07 -0600)
From: Norman Palardy

On 3-Aug-09, at 7:12 AM, Lundstrom Design wrote:

> General Motors is also a fairly big and old company. Was...
>
> /Claes

As were Enron, WorldCom, Pan Am Airlines and many other notables

Big does not always mean "going to be around a long time"

REAL and REALbasic are already over 10 years old

THat has to count for something

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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 14:15 (Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:15:21 -0500)
From: Jorge Biquez
Hello.

Thanks for your time.

Of course I know there are no guarantees in life. Rb Company can be
here for years of for days, even us!
I guess my client just want to be sure how powerful the company is.

I will have the latest meeting today and will give him what I found
and of course the same commments.

Take care.

JB
At 11:11 p.m. 02/08/2009, you wrote:
>On 03/08/2009, at 1:47 PM, Jorge Biquez wrote:
>
>>"Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
>>least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
>>market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
>>product?"
>
>Alas, there are no guarantees in life. I guess the same question could
>be asked of the client.
>
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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 14:12 (Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:12:42 +0200)
From: Lundstrom Design
General Motors is also a fairly big and old company. Was...

/Claes

3 aug 2009 kl. 15.06 skrev Brian:

>
> On Sun, August 2, 2009 11:47 pm, Jorge Biquez wrote:
>>
>> "Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
>> least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
>> market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
>> product?"
>>
> I usually just lurk on this list, but I had to comment on this one. I
> used to work for a a company that simply would not work with vendors
> that
> were either too small, or too new. That company will be celebrating
> their
> 100th anniversary in a couple of years. They work with IBM for
> almost all
> their technology needs. When we moved from a primarily COBOL/
> mainframe
> environment to JAVA, we of course standardized in IBM's WebSphere
> application server, because of the name behind the company, not
> necessarily because it was any better than JBOSS or Weblogic.. just
> because of the company.
>
> While it's worthwhile to try to make the argument RS is a reliable
> company
> that you feel is worth investing time and energy into, some
> companies have
> their minds made up before they ask the question.
>
> If you can, I would point to their history, support, and things
> thata make
> them unique that you feel the customer would benefit from. Not to
> knock
> RS, but if a company has standardized on a single OS for most of their
> application, arguing that RB apps are cross platform isn't going to
> help
> the cause. If you have other customers that have used RB solutions,
> you
> might be able to use them as point of reference to see what sold
> them on
> it, and/or see if they would be willing to talk to this group to see
> if
> they can answer any additional reservations that may be out there.
>
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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 14:06 (Mon, 3 Aug 2009 09:06:29 -0400 (EDT))
From: Brian

On Sun, August 2, 2009 11:47 pm, Jorge Biquez wrote:
>
> "Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
> least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
> market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
> product?"
>

I usually just lurk on this list, but I had to comment on this one. I
used to work for a a company that simply would not work with vendors that
were either too small, or too new. That company will be celebrating their
100th anniversary in a couple of years. They work with IBM for almost all
their technology needs. When we moved from a primarily COBOL/mainframe
environment to JAVA, we of course standardized in IBM's WebSphere
application server, because of the name behind the company, not
necessarily because it was any better than JBOSS or Weblogic.. just
because of the company.

While it's worthwhile to try to make the argument RS is a reliable company
that you feel is worth investing time and energy into, some companies have
their minds made up before they ask the question.

If you can, I would point to their history, support, and things thata make
them unique that you feel the customer would benefit from. Not to knock
RS, but if a company has standardized on a single OS for most of their
application, arguing that RB apps are cross platform isn't going to help
the cause. If you have other customers that have used RB solutions, you
might be able to use them as point of reference to see what sold them on
it, and/or see if they would be willing to talk to this group to see if
they can answer any additional reservations that may be out there.



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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 14:30 (Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:30:03 -0600)
From: Tony Alfrey
Brian wrote:
> On Sun, August 2, 2009 11:47 pm, Jorge Biquez wrote:
>> "Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
>> least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
>> market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
>> product?"
>>
> I usually just lurk on this list, but I had to comment on this one. I
> used to work for a a company that simply would not work with vendors that
> were either too small, or too new. That company will be celebrating their
> 100th anniversary in a couple of years. They work with IBM for almost all
> their technology needs. When we moved from a primarily COBOL/mainframe
> environment to JAVA, we of course standardized in IBM's WebSphere
> application server, because of the name behind the company, not
> necessarily because it was any better than JBOSS or Weblogic.. just
> because of the company.

I do not (generally) do commercial software development: I write code
strictly for internal use, usually for scientific apps. That said, many
years ago, I had many thousands of hours of code written for QuickBASIC
on the Mac, a platform offered by a large company of which you may be
familiar. Then all of a sudden, said large company decided to no longer
support QuickBASIC on the Mac, and after some time, introduced some
other BASIC-like app as a replacement. This single event so infuriated
me that I swore to never run the operating system offered by said large
company ever again, thus converting me to a die-hard *nix user.
So even large companies can make decisions which are as potentially
disruptive as a smaller company going out of business.

Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 08:49 (Mon, 3 Aug 2009 00:49:57 -0700)
From: Giovanni
You cant be in business thinking only like that. Part of it is trust
and research. If after making the research you find no value in RB
then dont use RB. Thats simple.

We picked RB because of simplicity, extensibility and programability.
We have made things work even if RB couldnt do something(through
plugins). We hired the best here to help us through the hard time and
overall you dont get just a product, you get a community that is
willing to share, help and move you forward.

But again, you need faith, you wont last in marriage if you are
thinking your wife is leaving you, before you even date her.

I appreciate ALL that RS has offered over the years. I am not always
easy on RS's decisions but I understand that decisions must be made.
Would I trust RS, Their president, and RB? ABSOLUTELY.

Remember, trust and research!

-Giovanni

On Aug 2, 2009, at 8:47 PM, Jorge Biquez wrote:

> Hello.
>
> I am working on a project where has been kind of difficult to
> convince client to accept some solution under Rb. ANyway, he asked
> something that even when I found some information on the RB website
> to tell the truth I have not much extra information to give. And all
> this because the question is kind of tricky.
>
> "Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
> least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
> market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
> product?"
>
> I know nobody could tell something about if RB company is healthy or
> not not (financially) or if they plan to have an excellent error
> free product so tehy can sell it. But I would like to hear your
> comments about how would answer a question like that.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> JB
>
> _______________________________________________
> Unsubscribe or switch delivery mode:
> <http://www.realsoftware.com/support/listmanager/>
> Search the archives:
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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 05:11 (Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:11:54 +1000)
From: Kim Kohen
On 03/08/2009, at 1:47 PM, Jorge Biquez wrote:

> "Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
> least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
> market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
> product?"

Alas, there are no guarantees in life. I guess the same question could
be asked of the client.

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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 06:58 (Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:58:55 +0200)
From: Markus Winter
>> "Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
>> least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
>> market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
>> product?"
>
> Alas, there are no guarantees in life. I guess the same question could
> be asked of the client.

Nice one ;-)

There is no proof one way or the other, but my guess is that with increasing
Mac market share the importance of cross-platform tools is increasing, as is
their market. That this year RB has been voted best programming language (by
programmers) also points to some cloud they have (if only 10 people vote for
it then they would not have won).

Just my 2c

Markus


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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 18:42 (Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:42:15 -0500)
From: Jorge Biquez
Hello all.

I am sorry if the question was too stupid. I just wanted to know your
comments . Be sure of something if RB as a product and of course the
company behind were not enough for me, I mean I would be satisfied ,
I won't be here for sure and won't be trying to convince my client is
a product that we have to use. These client is very important for me
and that's why I am trying to answer all his questions.

He came from a project were all the investment in hardware and
software was a waste of time for the last 3 years and cost him lot of
money. He know me from another company and he wanted me to solve the
problem they have. But he has to be sure this time is in the correct path.

As someone says only sure thing is that we all die sooner or
later.... other things are only probabilities.

I know RB as a company is strong and dominate in a way the Mac
business. Here , is not so popular (MS dominant market mainly) and
that's why clients have a dude in their face when you tell them to move.

Anyway. Thanks for all your comments.

Take care

Jorge Biquez

At 12:14 p.m. 03/08/2009, you wrote:
>At 06:29 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>
>> >>> "Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
>> >>> least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
>> >>> market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
>> >>> product?"
>
>(for the OP) Wouldn't the real question be whether or not *your* company
>>will be around to support the product you're producing for them?
>>
>>You listmembers are far more experienced than I, but aren't there still
>>companies running VB6 which isn't really supported anymore...or
>
>Couple comments:
>
>I still compile a large app of mine in Visual Basic 5, and it works
>great in Windows 7!
>
>In this year 2009, there are LOTS of apps that are out written over
>the last 9 years. As time goes on, it is harder and harder for OS
>makers to render old apps obsolete.
>
>There is a confusion between "obsolete" and "app doesn't look the
>same or the right way or doesn't take advantage of the "'latest'". A
>1968 Shelby can smoke most current cars off the starting line. The
>desire for modern apps is a cosmetic desire, not so much a functional one.
>
>I know it's still a complicated question. For you, you can help
>matters by not using highly tied-in componants.
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>| Garth Hjelte |
>| Customer Service Representative, President |
>| Chicken Systems, Inc, Rubber Chicken Software Co. |
>| 714 5th Street SE |
>| Willmar, MN 56201 USA |
>| |
>| 800-8-PRO-EPS Toll Free Order Line (US Only) |
>| 320-235-9798 Tech Support, Sampler Questions |
>| International Line |
>| 360-838-7689 Fax |
>| Product Sales: <email address removed> |
>| Product Support: <email address removed> |
>| Sampler Q+A: <email address removed> |
>| Web Page: www.chickensys.com |
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>_______________________________________________
>Unsubscribe or switch delivery mode:
><http://www.realsoftware.com/support/listmanager/>
>Search the archives:
><http://support.realsoftware.com/listarchives/lists.html>


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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 18:49 (Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:49:43 -0400)
From: Bart Silverstrim
Jorge Biquez wrote:
> Hello all.
>
> I am sorry if the question was too stupid. I just wanted to know your
> comments . Be sure of something if RB as a product and of course the
> company behind were not enough for me, I mean I would be satisfied , I
> won't be here for sure and won't be trying to convince my client is a
> product that we have to use. These client is very important for me and
> that's why I am trying to answer all his questions.

I don't think your question was stupid. I think your client is misguided.

If you can produce a solution that works *for the clients needs*,
especially if it's in-house and won't be something someone else will be
taking over as a project to maintain, then it really doesn't matter if
you cobble together bash scripts or use RB to do it. If the solution
works it doesn't matter if the parent company is still around.

If he's worried about maintenance then for the average lifecycle of
software there are members of the professional group and this list who
would probably be willing to consult on upkeep or alterations if you
were unable to do so.

If he's only going to allow you to do the project if there were some
guarantee that he can hire someone else to alter/maintain/update it
after you have some falling out or move on, then you'd have to use
something that is maintain and has a large knowledge pool out there
(C/C++/Java/Ruby/Python...)

But the basic point remains...RB will be around, your knowledge will be
around longer if RB folds next year, and if the application fits their
needs it'll keep chugging along without worry one way or the other. Just
ask an Amiga enthusiast...

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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 18:14 (Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:14:07 -0500)
From: Rubber Chicken Software Co.
At 06:29 AM 8/3/2009, you wrote:

> >>> "Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
> >>> least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
> >>> market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
> >>> product?"

(for the OP) Wouldn't the real question be whether or not *your* company
>will be around to support the product you're producing for them?
>
>You listmembers are far more experienced than I, but aren't there still
>companies running VB6 which isn't really supported anymore...or

Couple comments:

I still compile a large app of mine in Visual Basic 5, and it works
great in Windows 7!

In this year 2009, there are LOTS of apps that are out written over
the last 9 years. As time goes on, it is harder and harder for OS
makers to render old apps obsolete.

There is a confusion between "obsolete" and "app doesn't look the
same or the right way or doesn't take advantage of the "'latest'". A
1968 Shelby can smoke most current cars off the starting line. The
desire for modern apps is a cosmetic desire, not so much a functional one.

I know it's still a complicated question. For you, you can help
matters by not using highly tied-in componants.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
| Garth Hjelte |
| Customer Service Representative, President |
| Chicken Systems, Inc, Rubber Chicken Software Co. |
| 714 5th Street SE |
| Willmar, MN 56201 USA |
| |
| 800-8-PRO-EPS Toll Free Order Line (US Only) |
| 320-235-9798 Tech Support, Sampler Questions |
| International Line |
| 360-838-7689 Fax |
| Product Sales: <email address removed> |
| Product Support: <email address removed> |
| Sampler Q+A: <email address removed> |
| Web Page: www.chickensys.com |
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 12:29 (Mon, 03 Aug 2009 07:29:21 -0400)
From: Bart Silverstrim
Markus Winter wrote:
>>> "Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
>>> least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
>>> market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
>>> product?"
>>
>> Alas, there are no guarantees in life. I guess the same question could
>> be asked of the client.
>
> Nice one ;-)
>
> There is no proof one way or the other, but my guess is that with increasing
> Mac market share the importance of cross-platform tools is increasing, as is
> their market. That this year RB has been voted best programming language (by
> programmers) also points to some cloud they have (if only 10 people vote for
> it then they would not have won).

(for the OP) Wouldn't the real question be whether or not *your* company
will be around to support the product you're producing for them?

You listmembers are far more experienced than I, but aren't there still
companies running VB6 which isn't really supported anymore...or
TurboBasic, or many other dialects of languages that would mean a client
today hires people who know the language for maintenance until the
application can be ported over (if they ever do)?

In that case you need numbers on active consultants who use RB and are
willing to support applications created with it, which recently there
just happened to be an association of RB professionals formed...just
because RB folds tomorrow doesn't mean the knowledge of the language is
wiped from all your memories :-)

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Re: RB Company.
Date: 03.08.09 05:09 (Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:09:16 -0700)
From: Tim Jones
On Aug 2, 2009, at 8:47 PM, Jorge Biquez wrote:

> Hello.
>
> I am working on a project where has been kind of difficult to
> convince client to accept some solution under Rb. ANyway, he asked
> something that even when I found some information on the RB website
> to tell the truth I have not much extra information to give. And
> all this because the question is kind of tricky.
>
> "Are you sure that RB company will be in business for some years at
> least and that we won't waste on a company that willbe out of the
> market soon or will be sell to another big one that will kill the
> product?"
>
> I know nobody could tell something about if RB company is healthy
> or not not (financially) or if they plan to have an excellent error
> free product so tehy can sell it. But I would like to hear your
> comments about how would answer a question like that.

Jorge,

No one could tell you that. Even IBM or Apple could be out of
business in 2 years under extreme circumstances. On the other hand,
since REALbasic currently works and creates proper application for
the three supported platforms, they should rest safe in knowing the
REALSoftware has been around for many years and any project that you
create will work.

And, even if they did go away tomorrow, it would not stop the current
versions of REALbasic from doing what it does any more than Apple
disappearing tomorrow would stop the existing Macs and OS X from
working.

Tim

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