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Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!! (Real Studio Plugins Mailinglist archive)

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Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
   RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
    Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Joseph J. Strout
     Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
      Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Joseph J. Strout
       Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
       Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
  Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Theodore H. Smith
   Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
   RE: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Stys, Peter
    Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
   RE: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!   -   Stys, Peter

Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 01.06.03 16:17 (Sun, 01 Jun 2003 18:17:44 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
on 6/1/03 16:56, Stys, Peter at <email address removed> wrote:
>
>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>>
>>>> Today works only one way
>>>>
>>>> 1) you build plugin that go to plugin folder.
>>>> as usually.
>>>>
>>>> 2) now you open RB project in RB 5.1.
>>>> Project better put into plugin folder.
>>>>
>>>> Compile (!!!) executable application by that project.
>>>> this app also now in pluign folder.
>>>>
>>> *** here the non-debugged plugin resource will be included in the
>>> built app, don't you have to remove it with ResEdit? Else duplicate fn
>>> names?
>>
>> No, because your DEBUG plugin will be INSERT into this app on step 3.2,
>> Because you have told "Merge file"
>>
> Are you sure about this? I noticed that RB changes the resource ID of a
> standalone plugin when it links the final app (see for yourself with
> ResEdit). So, even if you Merge File your debug plugin, and it has the same
> name and resource ID as the release plugin, I believe you will still end up
> with 2 copies, because the old one won't be overwritten, because its ID# was
> changed by RB. Unless I'm missing something.

Hmm, frankly saying I have not note this.
May be because I use ONLY ONE plugin in my test RB project.

In any case, I have NOT removed that first copy by ResEdit,
And it debugging have work for me. May be because copies are the same, and
it is not important that present second copy...

RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 03.05.03 09:26 (Sat, 03 May 2003 11:26:02 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
Hi Guys,

I have install RB 5.1 and try to debug Valentina under it.

THIS NOT WORKS !!!!!!!!!!

And I see why it do not works.

For years we have set in CodeWarrior output directory = plugins.
And we have choose REALbasic as runtime apps.
In the plugin folder codeWarrior also create SYM file.

Now I see that REALbasic __COMPILE__ temporary application which put on
desktop.

As result app is on desktop (with copy of our plugin),
And SYM file still in the plugin folder.
Bingo. CodeWarrior DO NOT see your new TMP application and cannot debug our
plugin.

What a terrible idea!!!
Or I do not see something ???

You can offer our NEW way how to set up CodeWarrior to debug plugins with RB
5.1 ???

Terrible.
Any other IDE do not do this.

Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 03.05.03 21:41 (Sat, 3 May 2003 13:41:10 -0700)
From: Joseph J. Strout
At 11:26 AM +0300 5/3/03, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

>Now I see that REALbasic __COMPILE__ temporary application which put on
>desktop.

Actually, it puts it in the same folder as your project file.

>As result app is on desktop (with copy of our plugin),

RB does not move your plugin; that should still be in the Build folder.

But anyway, your point is that it's much harder to debug plugins in
RB5, and I agree. I believe it's possible, but I haven't worked out
the details yet. Perhaps someone else will have some advice.

Best,
- Joe

Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 03.05.03 22:02 (Sun, 04 May 2003 00:02:36 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
on 5/3/03 11:41 PM, Joseph J. Strout at <email address removed> wrote:

> At 11:26 AM +0300 5/3/03, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

Hi Joe,

>> Now I see that REALbasic __COMPILE__ temporary application which put on
>> desktop.
>
> Actually, it puts it in the same folder as your project file.

Joe, REALbasic create TMP application on desktop!
I am not blind, correct?

My project is located in absolutely other folder.

>> As result app is on desktop (with copy of our plugin),
>
> RB does not move your plugin; that should still be in the Build folder.

Again, not correct, Joe.

When from IDE I run project it compile TMP app,
Then it runs app, I see its menu
And now I have pause.

So I open that TMP app from desktop (YES and YES, from desktop)
In the ResEdit and I see Valentina plugin here.

Jow, yes you are right, that plugin built by CW is still located in the
"plugin" folder, and here is located SYM file.

But REALbasic, have made COPY of this plugin in that TMP APP on desktop,
And now REALbasic execute this COPY of plugin. Ops, and CodeWarrior DO NOT
see it of course.

> But anyway, your point is that it's much harder to debug plugins in
> RB5, and I agree. I believe it's possible, but I haven't worked out
> the details yet. Perhaps someone else will have some advice.

Joe, Geoff.

I don't know how other plugin developers was able to live with this problem
last 2-3 months. Sorry that I have jump to RB 5 so late (up to know I was
happy with RB 4.5).

But again, as far as I see, with new design in RB 5, you have break ability
to debug plugins. This is terrible mistake.

If some engineer from REAL will find new way how debug plugins, I will be
happy to hear it.

For now I think you need
1) as option, disable this TMP APP building.
2) or may be create it in the plugin folder?
3) I don¹t know what else...

I hope we will find solution ASAP together.

-

Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 03.05.03 22:25 (Sat, 3 May 2003 14:25:05 -0700)
From: Joseph J. Strout
At 12:02 AM +0300 5/4/03, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

> >> Now I see that REALbasic __COMPILE__ temporary application which put on
>>> desktop.
>>
>> Actually, it puts it in the same folder as your project file.
>
>Joe, REALbasic create TMP application on desktop!
>I am not blind, correct?
>
>My project is located in absolutely other folder.

Hmm, I can't explain that. On my machine it creates it in the same
folder as your project file. The name is the same as the name of the
built app, but with ".debug" on the end. And it so happens that I
was looking at the code that does this just the other day, and it is
certainly written to work that way.

>So I open that TMP app from desktop (YES and YES, from desktop)
>In the ResEdit and I see Valentina plugin here.

Oh yes, the plugin does get built into the debug app just as it does
with a "real" build. I misunderstood you on this point.

>Jow, yes you are right, that plugin built by CW is still located in the
>"plugin" folder, and here is located SYM file.

Right. So I wonder if debugging plugins will require having your
test project in the plugins folder?

Best,
- Joe

Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 03.05.03 22:42 (Sun, 04 May 2003 00:42:57 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
on 5/4/03 12:25 AM, Joseph J. Strout at <email address removed> wrote:

> At 12:02 AM +0300 5/4/03, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
>
>>>> Now I see that REALbasic __COMPILE__ temporary application which put on
>>>> desktop.
>>>
>>> Actually, it puts it in the same folder as your project file.
>>
>> Joe, REALbasic create TMP application on desktop!
>> I am not blind, correct?
>>
>> My project is located in absolutely other folder.
>
> Hmm, I can't explain that. On my machine it creates it in the same
> folder as your project file. The name is the same as the name of the
> built app, but with ".debug" on the end. And it so happens that I
> was looking at the code that does this just the other day, and it is
> certainly written to work that way.

Ah, you mean REALbasic project.
I have think about CodeWarrior project.

Yes, correct, this TMP app is created in the folder of RB project we
execute.

>> So I open that TMP app from desktop (YES and YES, from desktop)
>> In the ResEdit and I see Valentina plugin here.
>
> Oh yes, the plugin does get built into the debug app just as it does
> with a "real" build. I misunderstood you on this point.
>
>> Jow, yes you are right, that plugin built by CW is still located in the
>> "plugin" folder, and here is located SYM file.
>
> Right. So I wonder if debugging plugins will require having your
> test project in the plugins folder?

I will try but I doubt.
We say to CodeWarrior that Runtime app is REALbasic.

Even if this will work (let's pray for this)
It also make things harder then it was.
We will need copy projects into this folder instead of simply open them from
where they are...

Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 03.05.03 22:56 (Sun, 04 May 2003 00:56:14 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
>> So I open that TMP app from desktop (YES and YES, from desktop)
>> In the ResEdit and I see Valentina plugin here.
>
> Oh yes, the plugin does get built into the debug app just as it does
> with a "real" build. I misunderstood you on this point.
>
>> Jow, yes you are right, that plugin built by CW is still located in the
>> "plugin" folder, and here is located SYM file.
>
> Right. So I wonder if debugging plugins will require having your
> test project in the plugins folder?

I have try, It not works, Joe :-((

I also have try set as Runtime app this TMP APP.
But when I open SYM file in codeWarrior, it try to run this TMP APP,
Pause in 2 seconds and error dialog from this TMP APP "cannot connect to
debugger".

I also have try to compile app, and this also do not works.

Nothing works!!!

Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 03.05.03 14:24 (Sat, 3 May 2003 14:24:21 +0100)
From: Theodore H. Smith

What if you put the SYM file next to the application?

I have actually got CodeWarrior to debug my plugin in an app, even
while RB wasn't open! IE the only IDE around was CodeWarrior. I did
this by accident, but I can do it again if I need to.

I'm not exactly sure how to replicate this, however. I suppose you must
first set up CodeWarrior to be on debugging mode, and you need the
correct sym file.

I guess you might be able to choose the debug build's name as the
runtime?? CodeWarrior might be able to auto-detect it loading, as it
did for me (by accident).

> Hi Guys,
>
> I have install RB 5.1 and try to debug Valentina under it.
>
> THIS NOT WORKS !!!!!!!!!!
>
> And I see why it do not works.
>
> For years we have set in CodeWarrior output directory = plugins.
> And we have choose REALbasic as runtime apps.
> In the plugin folder codeWarrior also create SYM file.
>
> Now I see that REALbasic __COMPILE__ temporary application which put
> on
> desktop.
>
> As result app is on desktop (with copy of our plugin),
> And SYM file still in the plugin folder.
> Bingo. CodeWarrior DO NOT see your new TMP application and cannot
> debug our
> plugin.
>
> What a terrible idea!!!
> Or I do not see something ???
>
> You can offer our NEW way how to set up CodeWarrior to debug plugins
> with RB
> 5.1 ???
>
> Terrible.
> Any other IDE do not do this.

Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 03.05.03 15:08 (Sat, 03 May 2003 17:08:37 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
on 5/3/03 4:24 PM, Theodore H.Smith at <email address removed> wrote:

> What if you put the SYM file next to the application?

I have try this.
In different ways.
For TMP ap, for compiled app

NOT WORKS.

> I have actually got CodeWarrior to debug my plugin in an app, even
> while RB wasn't open! IE the only IDE around was CodeWarrior. I did
> this by accident, but I can do it again if I need to.
>
> I'm not exactly sure how to replicate this, however. I suppose you must
> first set up CodeWarrior to be on debugging mode, and you need the
> correct sym file.

Theodore, please note, I am not new to CodeWarrior.
So I perfectly know how to set up it for debugging :-)

> I guess you might be able to choose the debug build's name as the
> runtime?? CodeWarrior might be able to auto-detect it loading, as it
> did for me (by accident).

Again,

I am not going fight with problem that was introduced by REAL.
REALbasic must allow EASY way to debug plugins, like any other respected IDE
(MetaCard, Director, Visual BASIC, ...)

Even worse.

Bug which I try not debug happens ONLY IN THE IDE of RB 5.1,
It DO NOT happens in compiled app.
In fact I can bet that this bug is again result if this __TMP APP__

RE: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 28.05.03 18:45 (Wed, 28 May 2003 13:45:33 -0400)
From: Stys, Peter
With some trepidation I took the plunge to RB5.1, a few glitches but the
4.5.x => 5.1 transition went smoothly enough. However, I go to debug my
plugin from CodeWarrior by following the instructions in the new plugin SDK
(plugin-intro.html doc) to the letter and of course it didn't work (the
plugin code runs but the CW debugger does not catch the breakpoints).

Then I found this thread that Ruslin started, and I want to re-iterate his
pleas for how ESSENTIAL it is to be able to debug plugin code with a
source-level debugger (as we could with 4.5.x) with relative ease. I can't
imagine writing anything more than a simple plugin without having the
ability to step thru it.

So what's the bottom line folks? Is it possible to debug plugins under
RB5.1, and if so, how does one do it? (Perhaps RS would want to update the
plugin SDK docs to show users how to do this in a way that actually works?).

Cheers,
Peter.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Peter K. Stys, MD e-mail: <email address removed>
Professor of Medicine tel: (613)761-5444
Ottawa Health Res. Inst. fax: (613)761-5330
Div. of Neuroscience
Ottawa Hosp./ Univ of Ottawa
Ontario, CANADA
http://www.ohri.ca/profiles/stys.asp
-----------------------------------------------------------

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Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 28.05.03 19:52 (Wed, 28 May 2003 21:52:05 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
on 5/28/03 8:45 PM, Stys, Peter at <email address removed> wrote:

> With some trepidation I took the plunge to RB5.1, a few glitches but the
> 4.5.x => 5.1 transition went smoothly enough. However, I go to debug my
> plugin from CodeWarrior by following the instructions in the new plugin SDK
> (plugin-intro.html doc) to the letter and of course it didn't work (the
> plugin code runs but the CW debugger does not catch the breakpoints).
>
> Then I found this thread that Ruslin started, and I want to re-iterate his
> pleas for how ESSENTIAL it is to be able to debug plugin code with a
> source-level debugger (as we could with 4.5.x) with relative ease. I can't
> imagine writing anything more than a simple plugin without having the
> ability to step thru it.
>
> So what's the bottom line folks? Is it possible to debug plugins under
> RB5.1, and if so, how does one do it? (Perhaps RS would want to update the
> plugin SDK docs to show users how to do this in a way that actually works?).

Hi Peter,

Today works only one way

1) you build plugin that go to plugin folder.
as usually.

2) now you open RB project in RB 5.1.
Project better put into plugin folder.

Compile (!!!) executable application by that project.
this app also now in pluign folder.

Quite RB. You do not need it any more.

Now trick starts.

3) in CW project open settings of project.

Go to panel Target.
Here you need change 2 options
1) name of your plugin replace on the name of that application.
2) set ON check box "Merge to File".

and one more change:
Goto panel "Runtime settings" and choose that app.

4) Now you can simply RUN your CW project.
with such options your plugin will be placed DIRECTLY into that compiled
app. So app will be started and now you can debug.

Very annoying process...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

RE: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
Date: 28.05.03 20:25 (Wed, 28 May 2003 15:25:50 -0400)
From: Stys, Peter
Thx very much for the pointers Ruslan.

To the folks at RS: could you put this issue on the front burner and create
a more straightfwd method for debugging plugins at some point in the NEAR
future? It's nice to pay for upgrades if you gain stability and
functionality, but it's very annoying when you lose key capabilities, and I
consider this issue key.

Peter.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Peter K. Stys, MD e-mail: <email address removed>
Professor of Medicine tel: (613)761-5444
Ottawa Health Res. Inst. fax: (613)761-5330
Div. of Neuroscience
Ottawa Hosp./ Univ of Ottawa
Ontario, CANADA
http://www.ohri.ca/profiles/stys.asp
-----------------------------------------------------------

> ----------
> From: Ruslan Zasukhin
> Reply To: REALbasic Plugins
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 2:52 PM
> To: REALbasic Plugins
> Subject: Re: RB 5.1 BREAK debugging of plugins ???!!!
>
> on 5/28/03 8:45 PM, Stys, Peter at <email address removed> wrote:
>
> > With some trepidation I took the plunge to RB5.1, a few glitches but the
> > 4.5.x => 5.1 transition went smoothly enough. However, I go to debug my
> > plugin from CodeWarrior by following the instructions in the new plugin
> SDK
> > (plugin-intro.html doc) to the letter and of course it didn't work (the
> > plugin code runs but the CW debugger does not catch the breakpoints).
> >
> > Then I found this thread that Ruslin started, and I want to re-iterate
> his
> > pleas for how ESSENTIAL it is to be able to debug plugin code with a
> > source-level debugger (as we could with 4.5.x) with relative ease. I
> can't
> > imagine writing anything more than a simple plugin without having the
> > ability to step thru it.
> >
> > So what's the bottom line folks? Is it possible to debug plugins under
> > RB5.1, and if so, how does one do it? (Perhaps RS would want to update
> the
> > plugin SDK docs to show users how to do this in a way that actually
> works?).
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Today works only one way
>
> 1) you build plugin that go to plugin folder.
> as usually.
>
> 2) now you open RB project in RB 5.1.
> Project better put into plugin folder.
>
> Compile (!!!) executable application by that project.
> this app also now in pluign folder.
>
> Quite RB. You do not need it any more.
>
> Now trick starts.
>
> 3) in CW project open settings of project.
>
> Go to panel Target.
> Here you need change 2 options
> 1) name of your plugin replace on the name of that application.
> 2) set ON check box "Merge to File".
>
> and one more change:
> Goto panel "Runtime settings" and choose that app.
>
> 4) Now you can simply RUN your CW project.
> with such options your plugin will be placed DIRECTLY into that
> compiled
> app. So app will be started and now you can debug.
>
> Very annoying process...
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Ruslan Zasukhin [ I feel the need...the need for speed ]
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> e-mail: <email address removed>
> web: http://www.paradigmasoft.com
>
> To subscribe to the Valentina mail list go to:
> http://lists.macserve.net/mailman/listinfo/valentina
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>
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