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Plugins for Intel -Macs (Real Studio Plugins Mailinglist archive)

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macosx and unix paths   -   GOLD
  Plugins for Intel -Macs   -   Thomas Tempelmann
   Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs   -   Jonathan Johnson
    Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs   -   Thomas Tempelmann
     Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs   -   Jonathan Johnson
   Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs   -   David Abrames
   Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs   -   Jonathan Johnson
    Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs   -   Christian Schmitz
    Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs   -   Jonathan Johnson
    Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs   -   Thomas Tempelmann

Plugins for Intel -Macs
Date: 11.01.06 14:30 (Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:30:34 +0100)
From: Thomas Tempelmann
Can someone from RS already give an idea how we'll be able to provide
plugins for Intel-Mac deployment?

I suspect that we'll need to build a new separate plugin for this type,
and this can only be built with XCode? Or do you think you can (or even
try to) provide a plugin bridge so that RB can build Mac apps for the
Intel platform with plugins built for PPC?

Thomas
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Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs
Date: 11.01.06 14:41 (Wed, 11 Jan 2006 07:41:12 -0600)
From: Jonathan Johnson
On 1/11/06, Thomas Tempelmann <<email address removed>> wrote:
> Can someone from RS already give an idea how we'll be able to provide
> plugins for Intel-Mac deployment?
>
> I suspect that we'll need to build a new separate plugin for this type,
> and this can only be built with XCode? Or do you think you can (or even
> try to) provide a plugin bridge so that RB can build Mac apps for the
> Intel platform with plugins built for PPC?

They will need to be built in Xcode, as that's the only way to build a
plugin for intel. We cannot utilize Rosetta because Rosetta works on a
per-process basis.

There is an Xcode template included in the last two Plugin SDK
releases. Even if for education, it would be a good excersize to get
your plugins working in Xcode so that when the time comes, it's much
easier to switch to Intel.

Also, I'm doing a session at REAL World 2006 on developing
cross-platform plugins using GCC and am going to give tips and tricks
on how to help minimize difficulties in maintaining multi-platform
builds. While it's not as easy at it was with CodeWarrior when
buliding for Windows and Mac, even that process was complicated if you
wanted to support Linux.

Of course, you can always ask questions here and we'll try to answer
them. For those potentially going to REAL World, I just wanted to
point that session out :) I always like attendees at my sessions :P

HTH,
Jon

Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs
Date: 11.01.06 15:23 (Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:23:56 +0100)
From: Thomas Tempelmann
Just for the record: I'm currently porting Toast to the Intel platform,
if that application rings a bell :)

I do not know how much change is necessary to the plugin API, but may I
suggest to consider this as a way to deal with it:

If you have items in the API that remain at a fixed endianness (e.g.
always big endian) on Mac OS for whatever reason, please define new types
via a class that perform auto-swapping via C++ setter/getter functions
(i.e. assignment operator and value operator). E.g, make a type UInt16BE
that has one protected member as a 16 bit int and then provide the
necessary operators if it's compiled for little endian mode.

(And for optimization, refrain from defining a constructor for such
classes, because that'll cause mostly unnecessary code overhead - the
downside is that you can not write
UInt16BE x = 1;
but must instead write
UInt16BE x;
x = 1;
This, however, I found acceptable for getting more compact code in
exchange.

If you'll have fixed-endian properties in the API and choose not to go
this way as I just proposed, then at least rename such properties so
that, when compiling old code, one sees from the new name that one must
manually call CFSwap or OSSwap functions on them. For this, I suggest
using suffixes that include the endianness and size so that one can
easily find the correct swap function. Example: "size" becomes
"sizeBE32", meaning one has to use CFSwapBigIntToHost32() on it.

Thomas
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Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs
Date: 11.01.06 17:03 (Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:03:11 -0600)
From: Jonathan Johnson
On 1/11/06, Thomas Tempelmann <<email address removed>> wrote:
> Just for the record: I'm currently porting Toast to the Intel platform,
> if that application rings a bell :)
>
> I do not know how much change is necessary to the plugin API, but may I
> suggest to consider this as a way to deal with it:
>
> If you have items in the API that remain at a fixed endianness

All plugin APIs are platform-native. When building for Intel, they
will work as little endian, even for Mac OS X. Classes such as the
MemoryBlock and BinaryStream can dynamically have the LittleEndian
property toggled, however, so if you're interacting with those
classes, you might need to take that into account.

HTH,
Jon

Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs
Date: 11.01.06 20:45 (Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:45:55 -0500)
From: David Abrames
Dear Jonathan,

> Also, I'm doing a session at REAL World 2006 on developing
> cross-platform plugins using GCC and am going to give tips and tricks
> on how to help minimize difficulties in maintaining multi-platform
> builds. While it's not as easy at it was with CodeWarrior when
> building for Windows and Mac, even that process was complicated if you
> wanted to support Linux.

One of the major reasons I am trying to attend. But if I am unable to do
so, will you have information regarding your session available after REAL
World?

David

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Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs
Date: 11.01.06 21:06 (Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:06:24 -0600)
From: Jonathan Johnson
On 1/11/06, David Abrames <<email address removed>> wrote:
> Dear Jonathan,
>
> > Also, I'm doing a session at REAL World 2006 on developing
> > cross-platform plugins using GCC and am going to give tips and tricks
> > on how to help minimize difficulties in maintaining multi-platform
> > builds. While it's not as easy at it was with CodeWarrior when
> > building for Windows and Mac, even that process was complicated if you
> > wanted to support Linux.
>
> One of the major reasons I am trying to attend. But if I am unable to do
> so, will you have information regarding your session available after REAL
> World?

I am always willing to answer questions, and I'm sure more examples
and docs will appear in the SDK over time, but I doubt every tidbit of
information will get transformed into something for download.

-Jon

Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs
Date: 11.01.06 21:13 (Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:13:26 +0100)
From: Christian Schmitz
Jonathan Johnson <<email address removed>> wrote:

> I am always willing to answer questions, and I'm sure more examples
> and docs will appear in the SDK over time, but I doubt every tidbit of
> information will get transformed into something for download.

Please hurry and give me the SDK so I can start compiling stuff.

I'd like to get the gcc in command line to make those plugins needed.

(and with 136 plugin parts it will take time to get all compiler
warnings/errors processed so the SDK can appear for me a few weeks
before the Intel version of RB)

Mfg
Christian

Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs
Date: 11.01.06 21:34 (Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:34:07 -0600)
From: Jonathan Johnson
On 1/11/06, Christian Schmitz <<email address removed>> wrote:
> Jonathan Johnson <<email address removed>> wrote:
>
> > I am always willing to answer questions, and I'm sure more examples
> > and docs will appear in the SDK over time, but I doubt every tidbit of
> > information will get transformed into something for download.
>
> Please hurry and give me the SDK so I can start compiling stuff.

If you're already in Xcode, or have makefiles handy, you can already
start compiling. I won't say that there won't be any changes for
plugin controls, but for everything else, you should be able to simply
start compiling using the proper -arch option (i386 IIRC).

I can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work right now.

HTH,
Jon

Re: Plugins for Intel -Macs
Date: 12.01.06 10:16 (Thu, 12 Jan 2006 10:16:04 +0100)
From: Thomas Tempelmann
Jonathan Johnson wrote:

>you should be able to simply
>start compiling using the proper -arch option (i386 IIRC).

Note that when building for Intel, you need to use the new
Universal SDK from Apple, which requires Tiger (and up)
and requires gcc4 (no go with gcc33).

So, if you (anyone, not just Jonathan) wants to keep their
plugins or apps running on 10.3.x, you might have to do some
more work.
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