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Is REALbasic made with xcode ? (Real Studio Plugins Mailinglist archive)

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macosx and unix paths   -   GOLD
  Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
   Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Jonathan Johnson
    Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
     Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Jonathan Johnson
      Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
       Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Jonathan Johnson
        Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
     Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Christian Schmitz
      Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
   Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Bobby Skinner
   Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Norman Palardy
    Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
     Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Jonathan Johnson
      Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Ruslan Zasukhin
     Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?   -   Norman Palardy

Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 15:27 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:27:42 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
Hi All,

Anybody know if REALbasic itself is made with help of xcode?

If yes, what was first version of this port.

If no -- when is expect xcode-made build ?

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 15:40 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:40:21 -0500)
From: Jonathan Johnson

On Jun 26, 2006, at 9:27 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Anybody know if REALbasic itself is made with help of xcode?
>
> If yes, what was first version of this port.
>
> If no -- when is expect xcode-made build ?

I guess I don't see why this makes any difference, especially relating
to plugins. Why do you need to know?

-Jon

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 15:56 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:56:40 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
On 6/26/06 5:40 PM, "Jonathan Johnson" <<email address removed>> wrote:

Hi Jonathan,

> On Jun 26, 2006, at 9:27 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Anybody know if REALbasic itself is made with help of xcode?
>>
>> If yes, what was first version of this port.
>>
>> If no -- when is expect xcode-made build ?
>
> I guess I don't see why this makes any difference, especially relating
> to plugins. Why do you need to know?

Well, reason I ask is next:

few months ago when I did work on V4RB MACHO (CW)
I did have some problems...

I did the same things as in the "Valentina for Revolution" MACHO,
But they did not work with REALbasic...

Rev guys have inform me that they use xcode about 1.5 years already.

After some discussion (not remember where and with who) we have come to
conclusion that RB is not true MACHO app.

Aha, remember! Somebody have say that RB is in fact CARBON app made as MACHO
package... This fact prevent REALbasic to work correctly with dylibs and
executable_paths of dylibs.

Valentina for REALbasic is not simple plugin, it is bundled with set of
dlls.

This is why I wonder WHEN real BASIC will become true MACHO app.

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 16:05 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:05:58 -0500)
From: Jonathan Johnson

On Jun 26, 2006, at 9:56 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
>
> After some discussion (not remember where and with who) we have come to
> conclusion that RB is not true MACHO app.
>
> Aha, remember! Somebody have say that RB is in fact CARBON app made as
> MACHO
> package... This fact prevent REALbasic to work correctly with dylibs
> and
> executable_paths of dylibs.

REALbasic is built as a Carbon PEF package. It is not a "Mach-O
Package". Packages are something that were invented when Mach-O didn't
even run on Mac OS (a feature of Mac OS 9).

There isn't much pressure to have REALbasic become a Mach-O executable
until we support universal binaries. CFM applications work just as well
as Mach-O applications on PowerPC machines.

Why do your plugins need to rely on the executable path?

-Jon

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 17:03 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:03:34 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
On 6/26/06 6:05 PM, "Jonathan Johnson" <<email address removed>> wrote:

>
> On Jun 26, 2006, at 9:56 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
>>
>> After some discussion (not remember where and with who) we have come to
>> conclusion that RB is not true MACHO app.
>>
>> Aha, remember! Somebody have say that RB is in fact CARBON app made as
>> MACHO
>> package... This fact prevent REALbasic to work correctly with dylibs
>> and
>> executable_paths of dylibs.
>
> REALbasic is built as a Carbon PEF package. It is not a "Mach-O
> Package". Packages are something that were invented when Mach-O didn't
> even run on Mac OS (a feature of Mac OS 9).

right

> There isn't much pressure to have REALbasic become a Mach-O executable
> until we support universal binaries. CFM applications work just as well
> as Mach-O applications on PowerPC machines.

And I think it is useless ask when is planned
UB support for REALbasic? :-)

At least I'd like express hope, that REAL will send (may be private)
notification to plugin developers at least 1-2 weeks before you ship
REALbasic UB.

Revolution team have made great job in this regard. They have help a lots us
to produce universal plugin for Revolution.

> Why do your plugins need to rely on the executable path?

Well, we have 2 targets for Valentina engine projects and ADKs.
1) CARBON
2) MACHO

* We use CodeWarrior for V4RB and V4MD builds.

* We already have port V4REV to xccode. And we already have
Valentina for Revolution as UB.

* For V4RB I have made xcode project few months agin using RB SDK example,
but something did not work. After that I have read Thomas note that he have
success with CW and I got it also. We have V4RB MACHO few months. Good.

Using V4RB MACHO -- we have

plugin + macho dylibs.

When REALbasic produce compiled app, we put dylibs inside of package,
And this require correction of executable_path. This work fine for RELEASE.

But we have not found any way to make V4RB MACHO to work for DEBUG builds in
REALbasic....So V4RB users for now use in development V4RB CARBON, and if
they want they do RELEASE build using V4RB MACHO.

And source of problem is that RB is CARBON PEF, so it cannot work correctly
with MACHO dylibs.

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 17:09 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:09:56 -0500)
From: Jonathan Johnson

On Jun 26, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
> At least I'd like express hope, that REAL will send (may be private)
> notification to plugin developers at least 1-2 weeks before you ship
> REALbasic UB.

We have our beta program that will be used to test the feature, as it
is for every other feature.

> Using V4RB MACHO -- we have
>
> plugin + macho dylibs.
>
> When REALbasic produce compiled app, we put dylibs inside of package,
> And this require correction of executable_path. This work fine for
> RELEASE.
>
> But we have not found any way to make V4RB MACHO to work for DEBUG
> builds in
> REALbasic....So V4RB users for now use in development V4RB CARBON, and
> if
> they want they do RELEASE build using V4RB MACHO.
>
> And source of problem is that RB is CARBON PEF, so it cannot work
> correctly
> with MACHO dylibs.

It sounds like even if the IDE were Mach-O, there would still be the
problem that the dylibs aren't being copied into the debug application.
Why don't you statically link in whatever the dylib contains? This
would make life much easier for your users, not requiring to modify
their application packages every time they build.

HTH,
Jon

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 17:21 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:21:19 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
On 6/26/06 7:09 PM, "Jonathan Johnson" <<email address removed>> wrote:

>> And source of problem is that RB is CARBON PEF, so it cannot work
>> correctly
>> with MACHO dylibs.
>
> It sounds like even if the IDE were Mach-O, there would still be the
> problem that the dylibs aren't being copied into the debug application.

In Revolution we do trick
we copy dlls inside of Revolution package itself.

But in RB yes, schema is different...
in xcode we have scripts which allow developer do
something between link and run.
may be you need such thing for RB also..

> Why don't you statically link in whatever the dylib contains? This
> would make life much easier for your users, not requiring to modify
> their application packages every time they build.

One of reason was ICU of IBM...it was dll only.
Now it seems we have way build is as static also...
But still can be other files.

This is not correct assume that you can pack everything
into single static library!

* second reason was -- DESIGN.

Valentina becomes more and more complex.
Some features can be big but not all users need them.
dll-design allow developers self chose required components.

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 17:03 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:03:24 +0200)
From: Christian Schmitz
Ruslan Zasukhin <<email address removed>> wrote:

> Valentina for REALbasic is not simple plugin, it is bundled with set of
> dlls.

I'd like to see you linking all those DLLs into one big file so this
dependency stops.

Gruß
Christian

-

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 17:07 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:07:00 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
On 6/26/06 7:03 PM, "Christian Schmitz" <<email address removed>>
wrote:

>> Valentina for REALbasic is not simple plugin, it is bundled with set of
>> dlls.
>
> I'd like to see you linking all those DLLs into one big file so this
> dependency stops.

Yes and we will get this next month I believe.

But dlls have own advantages...if you look around any complex application is
set of few or many dlls and other files.

Look inside of Apple's software for example

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 15:46 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:46:39 -0400)
From: Bobby Skinner
As i Understand it the new versions of REALBasic - since 2005 were
written in realbasic itself. I suspect the older versions were
written in code warrior but i don't know.

On Jun 26, 2006, at 10:40 AM, Jonathan Johnson wrote:

>
> On Jun 26, 2006, at 9:27 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Anybody know if REALbasic itself is made with help of xcode?
>>
>> If yes, what was first version of this port.
>>
>> If no -- when is expect xcode-made build ?
>
> I guess I don't see why this makes any difference, especially
> relating to plugins. Why do you need to know?
>
> -Jon
>
> --
> Jonathan Johnson
> REAL Software, Inc.
>
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Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 16:45 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 09:45:20 -0600)
From: Norman Palardy

On Jun 26, 2006, at 8:27 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Anybody know if REALbasic itself is made with help of xcode?
>
> If yes, what was first version of this port.
>
> If no -- when is expect xcode-made build ?

From what I understand it is not
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Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 16:53 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 18:53:14 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
On 6/26/06 6:45 PM, "Norman Palardy" <<email address removed>>
wrote:

>
> On Jun 26, 2006, at 8:27 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Anybody know if REALbasic itself is made with help of xcode?
>>
>> If yes, what was first version of this port.
>>
>> If no -- when is expect xcode-made build ?
>
> From what I understand it is not

Thank you Norman.

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 16:54 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:54:41 -0500)
From: Jonathan Johnson

On Jun 26, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:

> On 6/26/06 6:45 PM, "Norman Palardy"
> <<email address removed>>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jun 26, 2006, at 8:27 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Anybody know if REALbasic itself is made with help of xcode?
>>>
>>> If yes, what was first version of this port.
>>>
>>> If no -- when is expect xcode-made build ?
>>
>> From what I understand it is not
>
> Thank you Norman.

Nor will it ever be :) The REALbasic IDE is written in REALbasic now.

Which is why I asked, why does it matter?
-Jon

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 17:05 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 19:05:05 +0300)
From: Ruslan Zasukhin
On 6/26/06 6:54 PM, "Jonathan Johnson" <<email address removed>> wrote:

> Nor will it ever be :) The REALbasic IDE is written in REALbasic now.

This cannot be forever... :-)

Once you need external push.

> Which is why I asked, why does it matter?

Read my last letter.

PEF cannot work with MACHO dlls.

Our plugin is COMPLEX. It is not just single dll as most are.
We depend on set of our own dylibs which we want put inside of compiled
packages.

Re: Is REALbasic made with xcode ?
Date: 26.06.06 17:00 (Mon, 26 Jun 2006 10:00:10 -0600)
From: Norman Palardy

On Jun 26, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Jonathan Johnson wrote:

>
> On Jun 26, 2006, at 10:53 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/06 6:45 PM, "Norman Palardy" <npalardy@great-white-
>> software.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 26, 2006, at 8:27 AM, Ruslan Zasukhin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Anybody know if REALbasic itself is made with help of xcode?
>>>>
>>>> If yes, what was first version of this port.
>>>>
>>>> If no -- when is expect xcode-made build ?
>>>
>>> From what I understand it is not
>>
>> Thank you Norman.
>
> Nor will it ever be :) The REALbasic IDE is written in REALbasic now.

Is the compiler written in RB ?
I thought that was still CW and the IDE is in RB
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